On Mon, 19 May 1997, MegaZone wrote:
> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 05:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: MegaZone <megazone@livingston.com>
> To: portmaster-users@livingston.com
> Subject: PM3 vs Shiva LRAS (fwd)
Some of this information has changed slightly.
> Once upon a time David Routh shaped the electrons to say...
> >Since someone asked about Cisco's AS5200 I thought I'd ask about the
> >comparison between the PM3 and Shiva's LanRover Access Switch.
>
> I wrote this a while back, but I think it is still accurate - though
> most of the "pm-3 will" have come to pass.
>
> PM-3 vs Shiva Access Switch
>
> * Both the Shiva and the PM-3 support PRI dialin, and
> T1/frac-T1/channelized-T1 leased lines for WAN support. It looks like
> the Shiva does channelized dialins too, that will be a software
> upgrade on the PM-3.
>
> * PM-3 includes CSU/DSU - optional on Shiva.
The Access Switch comes with an internal CSU, but can be used with an
external CSU is desired. (God only knows why you'd want to have an external
if the internal is available).
> * Same protocol support - except the Shiva also does ARAP and NetBUI.
> Two protocols we have decided not to support. Appletalk over PPP is a
> possibility.
>
> * I see no mention of multi-chassis multi-link PPP.
It does not do multi-chassis multi-link PPP AFAIK.
> * The Shiva does have more extensive dialout capabilities when used on
> a Novell or Appletalk LAN.
They have also added Windows NT and Windows 95 dialout support.
> * Both units support similar switch types.
>
> * Shiva prices range from $23K to $63K I got that from a press
Current pricing for ISPs is $311 per port. For a 72 modem configuration, it
would cost $22,400.
> release as they don't seem to list prices. I can't compare prices
> because I don't have configurations to do a break down. Assuming I
> got it below (4 PRI/T1/E1 lines and 72 modems) you can get the same
> with 2 PM-3s for $50,900 *list*. With a full load of 96 modems for T1
> they would be $61,300 or $71,500 with 120 modems. The same
> configurations at ISP pricing are $27,998, $33,722, and $39,326
> repspectively. The starting list price for a PM-3 is $6,950 for a 1
> PRI with no modems, a 2 PRI unit is $9,950. ($3,823 and $5,473
> respectively at ISP pricing.) So it looks like the bottom of the two
> price curves are radically different, I'd like to know what the $23K
> unit includes.
>
> * I can't believe it, but they don't seem to say how many T1/E1/PRI
> lines you can put in a box. They just say "designed for over 100
The current modem cards only have 12 modems (There is talk of a higher
density version coming available soon). This allows 72 modems for analog
(either c-T1 or PRI) configuations. The box will support 96 ISDN calls
when configured for PRI.
> users". It looks like there are 11 slots, 2 of them used by the main
> CPU card and the network card. Now, that leaves 9 slots. If you put
> 1 dual T1/PRI card in you have a max of 48 lines. So you need 4 slots
> for modems (12 to a slot). Leaving 4 slots unused. In Europe it
> would be 60 lines, so 5 modem cards, 3 unused. If you go with 2 dual
> T1/E1/PRI cards you have 96 lines, and 7 open slots - which means only
> 84 modems! That's a short age of 12 modems. Or a shortage of 36
> modems in Europe. Not a balanced design - too much room or not
> enough. I suppose you could put it at a POP with 3 dialin lines and
> one used for WAN links - to be fair. Looking at their illustration it
> looks like their high speed MVIP BUS only covers 7 slots, with the PCI
> BUS covering all 11, and the Control Bus 8 slots. Hmm, looks to me
> like there are only 8 slots for WAN cards and modems. So 72 modems
> maximum - the same 96 lines but 72 modems issue as the Ascend MAX.
> Worse for Europe - 120 lines but 72 modems. (Anyone have one of these
> who can comment?)
>
> * Physically the unit is larger than the PM-3.
>
> * Where we produce extremely high performace with efficient,
> streamlined code, Shiva is using expensive processors. A 68060 on the
> routing engine, a 68040 on each 12 modem card(!), and a 68020 on each
> T1/E1/PRI card. That adds up to a lot of processors in each box, and
> CPUs are not inexpensive.
The hardware is designed to be modular. If the DMC (digital modem cards)
with 12 port grow to a 24 modem configuration, there should be no problem
with system loading and throughput.
My fully loaded boxes (72 ports) never run at more than 60% load with 70+
modem calls.
> Data from:
> <http://www.shiva.com/remote/access_switch/index.html> - all
> subsections.
>