> Once upon a time Prof Jake Messinger shaped the electrons to say...
> >I think the PM 3 is supposed to be the Livingston version of the MAX. The
> >PM 3 cannot do as much as the max, YET. In other words, it only does the 2
> >pri's whereas max can take up to 4 T1's.
>
> BFD.
>
> 1. The PM-3 is smaller over all, so the total volume isn't radically different.
> 2. The PM-3 is less expensive per port. 2 PM-3s should run less than 1 4004.
> 3. Putting 4 T1s in one chassis is riskier than 2 in 2 chassis.
> 4. The PM-3 can FULLY populate the PRI/T1 lines with modems. ALL channels
> can be used. The 4004 with 4 PRI/T1 has up to 96 lines but only 72 modems.
> 5. The Ascend has all kinds of videoconferencing code, etc, that we just
> aren't interested in doing.
>
> I did this a while back, I'll comment it:
>
> PM-3 vs MAX 4002
>
> I picked the 4002 because it is the closest MAX to the PM-3 - 2 PRI
>
> Both have 6 expansion slots, single ethernet, dual PRI.
>
> The MAX 4002/4004 is US only however and is apparently limited to 48
> modems. The PM-3 goes to 60. The 4002 can be upgraded in the field to a
> 4004 with 4 PRIs, something we cannot do (You'd need another chassis). But
> at that point you have 96 lines of PRI and 72 modems max (their cards
> are 12 modems per). So you can't use a full box on all channels for analog
> support. I think that is a drawback to the design personally, but I've a
> feeling it is a religious issue with no real right answer.
The remaining channels could be used for ISDN.
A 4004 can not handle all PRI's fully loaded anyways.
The most interesting use for the 4th PRI is for passing calls out to a
PBX. You could route calls to the PBX based on clid.
The MAX also has a 8mb sync serial port. No idea of what realistic
performance you can get out of it.
> Both the PM-3 and 4002 support dialin as well as nailed up WAN connections
> using PPP and Frame Relay.
>
> Reading their info it looks like base support is flat channelized T1, which
> Frame Relay and ISDN as part of the 'Hybrid Access' software upgrade. [This
> is true. You must pay extra for each feature - included in the PM-3.]
>
> I also don't see mention of multilink PPP support across chassis. [This JUST
> started shipping, so they have no lead on us. And it looks like their
> method is very similar, though possibly not as flexible.]
They have someting called "stacking". It isn't really complete.
> Apparently the 4002 is nothing but a 4004 with the software crippling the
> other 2 ports. You need to upgrade the software to get the other 2 ports.
This part really bites. All the MAX 400x series use the same hardware
base, just with different software keys to give you the features you want.
> List of 4002 chassis is $11,000, digital modem cards are $6,250 each. I don't
> quite understand what you need to make a 4002 like a PM-3 - I *think* you
> need 'Hybrid Access64' for $1,500. There is also an option to enable ISDN
> for $1,000 and Frame Relay for $1,000 - but I think those are both part of
> Hybrid Access. They don't seem to have a great deal of Pricing info on the
> web, or I couldn't find it. I got these prices when I stumbled across
> <http://www.ascend.com/products/max4002-4/max4002-4produpdate.txt>
You need HA if you want to support both digital and analog calls on a
MAX. The web pages is rather confused about HA vs Frame Relay. An Ascend
Sales Mamanager had to come and explain it to me before I understood it.
> Since it isn't clear, and you have to call/fax/email for pricing info (lame)
> I can't be sure of the current prices or bundles, etc. And I'm not
> positive what one needs. But even doing a basic setup, their list is a lot
> higher than ours. And I know, from sales, that our ISP discount also comes
> out to a lower price for a unit configured with modems.
You need the chassis, HA-64, ISDN signalling, and modems at a minimum.
If you want to connect to Frame Relay, you will need that software option
too.
> So the MAX 4002 seems more comparable to a PM-3 than the RA6300. The MAX
> has features/baggage that the PM-3 doesn't - we don't have all those expansion
> cards to turn a PM-3 into a video conferencing system, hub router (they have
> V.35 and T1 port cards), or BRI cards. Interestingly to me, the BRI cards
> and modem cards take the same slots, so it looks like using BRI reduces the
> number of modems. It isn't clear that you can use the built in modems with
> users coming in on BRI, but I'll give them the doubt on that one. The 4002
> supports TACACS and TACACS+ as well as RADIUS. But with everyone and their
> duck supporting RADIUS these days, I personally don't see it as a major issue.
>
> Also, many of the features that are standard on a PM-3 are options on the
> MAX - for a fee of course. ISDN, Frame Relay, V.120 Rate Adaption, and
> V.25bis dialing are options.
There are many other software options that I didn't know about until I
got a 4000. The 4000 here says that it does *not* have the following
options installed:
PRI<->T1 (for conversion between PRI and T1)
Multirate
RS-336
Dynamic Bandwidth
AIM Nx64
V.25bis
BONDING
X.21
These are apparently all separately available items.
> I based this on:
> <http://www.ascend.com/products/max4002-4/max4002-4index.html> (all the links)
> <http://www.ascend.com/products/max4002-4/max4002-4produpdate.txt>
>
> -MZ
> --
> Livingston Enterprises - Chair, Department of Interstitial Affairs
> Phone: 800-458-9966 510-426-0770 FAX: 510-426-8951 megazone@livingston.com
> For support requests: support@livingston.com <http://www.livingston.com/>
> Snail mail: 4464 Willow Road, Pleasanton, CA 94588
>
>
Tom